about the ncplot price....

[ELCouz]

Hi,

God that discouraging ,, 299$ for a single license ,, sorry scott , when i said that i will be the first to purchase it when it will be available ,, forget it !
I'm just a simple employee who work as an laser operator ,, i use it as a hobby only ,,, sorry about that but that too expensive ....

ELCouz

[scottmartinez]

Well, I'm sorry to hear that. We do have special pricing for students, but not for the hobby user. What do you think would be a fair price? How would you handle selling to the hobby users?

Scott

[ELCouz]

99 $ for both students and hobbyist with minimal support, forum only ...
299$ for enterprise including a manual (if possible) and genuine cd-rom with full support via phone , and or email + forum

anyway it's just my opinion .... putting the price too high leads to piracy with the exception of companies which can afford genuine software such as autocad.

The main reason why i would like to buy it , because it's useful when i need it (at home where i dont have access to software such as Fabriwin , damn thats 1999$ for a single license ,, i have asked for a student license ,,, all they gave me it's a demo which can't generate g-codes... ) and to support you to continue your work on NCPlot...


NCPlot fan

ELCouz

[titchener]

I like NCplot, but even though I'm a professional user at $299. its priced a little too high for us to purchase. I use a CNC knee mill for prototypes and small runs here at our business where we make and sell spring testing equipment. Keep in mind that the other CNC software we purchased and use heavily is:

Mach3 - $149. and SheetCAM - $150.

So at $299. NCplot would be the most expensive CNC software we had. I don't edit G code every day, just every once in a while, so $299. is a little too much for that kind of usage.

Have you considered introducing "Standard" and "Plus" versions of the product? If the Standard version had enough features to make it a big step up over a simple text editor but you reserved the advanced features for the Plus version you could potentially continue to get $299. sales to more advanced users while also capturing sales of a lower cost product that otherwise won't buy the $299. version. I think if you priced the Standard version at $99. you would capture both hobbiests and small company users like me, that otherwise won't become NCplot customers.

Thanks,

Paul Titchener

[scottmartinez]

Paul,

This is something I've been putting some thought into and I am leaning towards making a "lite" version of NCPlot. The hard part is deciding what features to exlude from the lite version. The most likely candidates are:

- scripting
- variable macro capability, including the expression calculator, the macro translator, the show variables window and support for G65.
- DXF importing/exporting
- DNC
- some of the more advanced G-Code funtions like G50/G51, G51.1/G50.1, G68 and the mirror image M-Codes.

What else? What functions do you think are absolutely necessary and what would you pay extra for?

Thanks,
Scott

[titchener]

Scott-

I think you are on the right track. Keep in mind that with the Mach program and machines that use it like the Tormach there are 1000's of users that are pretty serious but either hobbiest or small company users (like me), and I think you would need a lower cost version to sell to these users, $99. seems right to me, I'd go for it at that price. Keep in mind that from what I understand there are several upcoming new machines that are going to hit the market that also use the Mach control software.

I would consider taking out all the features that aren't really required by the typical Mach user, and all the things you mentioned (DNC, scripting, DFX importing, etc) fit that description, as probably do many of the advanced G codes you mentioned, they probably aren't supported by Mach.

I would also approach Art, the Mach guy, and ask him about doing an affiliate type promotion of the demo version of your software. Since your products are fully complementary, this seems to make sense for both parties. For example, with his download, users could be asked if they would like to try a demo version of your software also. He also generates a fair amount of traffic to his website for downloads, so even if you just had an NCplot download banner there I'm sure it would generate some revenue for you. You would need to of course track these sales and pay an affiliate commission to him, but I'm sure it would be worth it to capture these new sales.

The Tormach company (www.tormach.com) is another possibility for an affliate type deal to promote sales of NCPlot.

I'm not saying you should focus only on Mach users with the $99. version, but its a nice well defined, reasonably large and easy to access group of users, and if you can have success there you likely will find other user segments to buy the lite version.

One other piece of feedback, the first time I came to your website I was a little put off because the way its worded in some places, ie

"for 4 axis mill and 2 axis lathe Fanuc compatible G-Code programs"

it makes it sound like NCplot is only useful if you have a Fanuc controller, and I wasn't sure NCplot would even work for me. I would recommend rephrasing that to make it clear that NCplot will work with a variety of controllers, not just Fanuc ones.

Another advantage of an entry level priced software version is that once those users become customers you likely will over time be able to convert many of them to upgrade to the full version if you can continue to add features to it to make it attractive. People always want new functionality to play with, and buying it in 2 stages ($99. for the lite version and $198. later on for the upgrade) makes it easier to swallow.

I would consider adding high level conversational programming capability to the "full" version, if that got pretty refined I'd consider popping another $198. to get it on top of a $99. entry level version. The current conversational offerings for Mach are so-so, I think you could make something much better.

Good luck-

Paul Titchener

[scottmartinez]

Paul,

Thanks for all the feedback, you've certainly given me more to think about.

I really wanted to get a couple of updates in before really promoting NCPlot. Just to be sure things are stable and to give me a chance to fix up some areas where I think it needs it. But this is coming for sure.

I will probably put together a lite version and give it to a few people for beta testing. Then, if it looks like a good thing I'll make it available for everyone. Same type of beta cycle that I did for v2, but much short time frame.

What sort of conversational programming capability are you thinking of? Right now there is the 'Macro Translator' that allows you enter values and create G-Code programs from a macro program. Is this what you're thinking, or are you thinking more of a graphical approach?

Thanks,
Scott

[titchener]

Scott-

Regarding conversational programming tools, Hurco, Haas and some of the other control manufacturers have put a lot of effort into developing "conversational" front ends that make it real easy to perform common simple machining operations, top surfacing, end surfacing, bolt arrays, square, round and rectangular pockets, slots, etc.

I think there is an opportunity for someone to study all those packages and use the best of their concepts to create a PC based conversational package. I think having such a package be integrated with NCplot would be very slick as you could immediately see the tool paths you were creating.

I don't think the graphical front end for such a package has to be super slick, just a mostly fixed graphic of the particular operation with simple to enter parameters and online help would be fine.

I think a method to group a set of conversational operations (ie create a prototype by surfacing, pocketing, bolt drilling) into a set that can later be read back in as a set and edited (for example to evolve a prototype) and then resaved is important.

With Mach they took a not too bad first step attempt at this, if you download and install Mach3 (it doesn't have to be running a real machine) if you hit the "Conversational" button you'll see a demo set of "conversational wizards" that can be purchased as an extra add-in. However the implementation is a little clunky and they don't seem to have much interest in improving them, and of course they require Mach to use.

Paul T.

[scottmartinez]

Paul,

OK, you've got me thinking now... This idea brought to mind a project I did recently. It's basically what you are talking about, although not very fancy. It takes the macro translator to the next step with an interface that lets you add macros to a sequence and enter the required data. I uploaded a screen shot of it if you're interested:

http://www.ncplot.com/misc/grinder.jpg

This would let you add cycles in any order, add the required data and then you could 'Post' the code with the click of a button. The sequence and data can be saved and re-loaded. The screen shot doesn't show it, but there can be pictures in the background behind the data entries.

What do you think? Is this close to what you had in mind?

Thanks,
Scott

[titchener]

Scott-

Yup, something like that's along the lines of what I think could sell if you targeted it to basic common machining operations. It needs to be really easy to use but also well thought out and powerful, I think making it easy to string operations together and then go back and modify them or use that set as a starting point for the next project is important.

I'd certainly be willing to give you input on what machining operations should be included, although I still think taking a close look at the "conversational" offerings from Hurco and Haas would also be a good starting point, and as I mentioned the "Newfangled wizards" that come in demo from from Mach aren't a bad starting point although they are missing and "end surfacing" wizard.

There are a couple of packages like this on the PC now, but I haven't seen one that I thought was really worth a poop, and having it being integrated with NCplot so you can see the resulting tool paths would be a big advantage for you.

Paul T.

[scottmartinez]

Paul,

If you could tell me what operations you would like to see included that would be a big help.

In the meantime, I'll see about putting together an interface for it.

Thanks,
Scott

[titchener]

Scott, give me a couple of days and I'll compile a list of suggested operations and their parameters.

Paul T.

[RichardF]

Hi all,

I dont understand the discussions about the price of the full version.
Before the full version was released everybody was able to download the beta, test it and see if its okay.
And everybody had the chance to buy NCPLOT at the lower price of $75 until the release-date of the NCPLOT V2.0 full version.

It is great software and I think its worth its price even now.

Regards

Richard

[daking639]

The price seems fair to me. There was a lot of time and effort put into this program. Everyone had a chance to buy in at $75.00. If you don't use it much and don't feel you can justify spending $299.00 then get version 1. It's still free I believe. Scott deserves to be paid for his time and effort.

Dave

[I.C.O.N.]

NCplot is a very nice editior. I put it on the same level as predator for sure... if not a little better.

Forget the light version Scott, GO FOR THE SWISS!

If you can get two and three line programs working you can cahrge $999-1999 and people will love you for it! I have been searching for a simple plotter for twin turret lathes and our swiss machines. I have only found three editiors that handle the swiss. One is from Citizen(next to junk BTW), one from STAR(for STAR machines) and one that is not available in the US as of yet...

I know I bugged you about this a couple years ago now... but I thought I would try again.

The V2 is looking good BTW. Come a long way since I first got started with NCplot.

Keep up the Good work!

BTW $299 for 4 axis editior is not bad.

Have Fun!
Andy